X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

Hi xcarters,

I would like to share our plans regarding the 2016 roadmap. I will provide some details on the future of the X-Cart 5 platform today, and share the roadmap for v4 separately next week.

We believe that X-Cart 5 is the best platform to start a new business. Due to the flexible architecture, it allows you to keep up to date with the new releases and features. As a result this platform grows with your business.

There will be one more major update in the 5.2.x branch. Here is the roadmap: http://www.x-cart.com/roadmap.html. In addition, we are planning to close most of the existing bug reports in the bugtracker.

After that we are going to start working on the 5.3 version. Here are the key changes that we are planning to implement:

Integration with segment.com

Segment is the universal glue to integrate your website with almost any useful service on the web. You can see the list of their integrations here: https://segment.com/integrations

With Segment integration, our merchants will be able to import data into all these services in one click. This solution will provide our merchants with a set of very powerful tools to increase sales and conversion, analyse data, make reports, follow up with customers and partners, work with search engines and so on.

A new vertical checkout template

The 5.3 version will have a new modern and simple template featuring the new vertical checkout.

It will be an HTML5 template based on Bootstrap, LESS and CSS3.

Drag-n-Drop design tool

In 5.3 we will implement a tool to drag and drop the blocks and sections around the website and manage the visibility of these blocks and sections in the customer storefront.

Better Template Structure

We want to make the customization process for template designers as simple as possible. Thus, we will re-design the template structure to make it more straightforward for the new developers. We will also implement the ability to create a new theme by adding a new folder in the “skins” directory.

After that you will just need to choose the new design in the admin area, copy the template files you require from the original folder to the new one and customize the templates as you want.

So, it should be as simple as in XC4, but with better upgradability.

We also remember about our 3d party developers. We will provide them with the guidelines for the major changes in the template structure to adapt the existing functionality to the new version.

Replace Flexy with Twig

Flexy is a very clear and simple template framework, but it hasn’t been improved for several years. We need to move forward. We did some thorough investigation as to what we should choose - Twig or Smarty - and selected the first one. Twig is very similar to Smarty by way of syntax (hey, v4 platformers), but much more powerful and popular. At the same time, our development team has managed to tweak some Twig classes to make it work much faster.

We created an automatic converter to re-code over 2000 template files that we have now, and we will surely share this converter with the community to adapt the existing functionality for the new version.

So, more documentation, more examples, more functions, more flexibility for customization - http://twig.sensiolabs.org/

Editing of product groups and other UI/UX back end improvements

We collected a lot of requests to implement the product group modifying mode. This is a very powerful feature, but we want to give our merchants the best experience, so we cannot just copy the UI/UX from v4 to v5. Now we have a concept of how to make it easy and clear.

At the same time we will re-work some input fields and widgets in the admin area for better usability for merchants.

Also we want to implement an easy way to customize email notifications.

Code base improvements

We are going to increase the minimum required php version to 5.4. We would prefer to make it 5.5, but we understand that most of the hosting companies will continue using the older versions in the nearest future, so it is going to be just 5.4 this time. This change will allow us to update the Doctrine to the latest version which will make X-Cart faster.

There will also be some other improvements:

• The template executive functions will use absolute template paths instead of the “magic” logic when the system detects the “admin” and “customer” folders automatically. At the same time we will re-work the compiling process to reduce the number of created objects. This is a huge task that will affect most of the classes, but it will make X-Cart much faster.
• At the moment we have separate template sets for the admin and customer areas. Even if some files look the same and do the same thing, they still have to be separate files for each of the areas. We will add the ability to have common templates and widgets that can be used in both the areas, admin and customer, without the need to duplicate the respective files. At the same time we will provide the ability to apply a common template to just one of the areas by extending it with a file for that specific area.
• The structure of LC_Dependencies will be changed a little bit to improve the API for developers.
• The engine for the inclusion of static assets will be improved to redefine CSS classes more easily.
• The profiler will be improved to make it better suited for X-Cart classes. At the moment it shows generalized information. We want it to be more specific, which will be of value to developers as a tool for finding the store’s performance bottleneck.
• We will implement the Dependency Injection principle - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependency_injection - to make the code more modular and mantainable by delegating object creation logic to the IoC container.

Surely, we will provide the community with the detailed explanation of what we have changed and the instructions they will need to follow to adapt their custom modifications and modules to the 5.3 version. For some changes (like flexy -> twig) we will provide an automatic script to convert the code.

These are our thoughts about the 5.3 version, and we want to discuss them with the community. Feel free to share your ideas and thoughts here.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

When I just started to get a grip on Flexy...

All this sounds like a new cart system. I think you should give us at least 2-3 months with beta before official release.

What is the approximate release date you are thinking of for 5.3?

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

It is the good question. We are planning to implement all the codebase improvements first and release 5.3 alpfa/beta. After that will start working on the feature set. I believe we will show 5.3 prototype in March-April with the official release in May-June.

We definitely need at least 2 months for beta-testing.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

The problem with all of these changes, is that you're not building. You are re-creating. You guys are making things completely impossible for existing XC 5.x.x users to update. All of the custom CSS will be lost, and the mods break.

You keep changing the core so much and it's just becoming overwhelmingly expensive to upgrade, seeing a person has to keep paying to adapt their modules.

This is why I'm seriously considering moving down to XC4.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

One of the main important point in the current requirements for 5.3 - is to save the upgradability for existing merchants. We understand that the changes are huge, but we are going to make the adaptation process very simple.

We already have the beta of the Flexy->Twig script convertor to re-code all the files automatically, we will share it with the community after QA phase. So we will invest a lot of resources to save the upgradability and help our merchants and developers to reduce the adaptation costs.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

I'm hopeful, but just doesn't seem practical. I've talked to a ton of other XC5 owners and the bugs are endless. It would seem the focus should be more on bugs.

The problem with the new versions, is that there is no way to know if it breaks the logic of a custom mod or other mods. So every upgrade becomes a new site all over. Just when you tackled the bugs, you start all over with a new version. There is no way for the script to pre-predict breaking the logic of a module and in a production environment, merchants loose money.

The upgrades between versions in XC4 were much more seamless and with less headache. I'm not quite sure you guys keep updating the core so often. I would trade stability for features any day of the week right now, because the goal of a merchant is to make sales.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

I think everyone would appreciate less frequent updates. I was early into the mix developing modules for X-Cart 5. However when I realized how often I would need to update my modules in order to keep pace, I lost interest. I think releases should be 1 year apart, or at least 6 months. But you guys already know I feel this way.

All of the improvements you have outlined above sound great! Looks like a solid plan Max!

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

From my experience, the bugs have been getting less and less as the versions progress. There were still quite a lot of bugs up to 5.2.10. There are still some but they seem to be manageable.

In our case the upgrades haven't really broken any of my custom mods except for one, and that was fixed rather expediently by the mod developer.

I've been upgrading since 5.0 but I only went live with it at 5.2.4, mistakenly assuming the cart was ready to be used for live commerce. It probably wasn't really ready until 5.2.10.

For sure - I won't be upgrading to 5.3 anything until I'm really sure it will be a smooth transition.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

Glad to see you are coming around now :)

Especially with the forced 1-year subscription model and no other way for 3rd party devs having to change modules every 2-3 months is not good.
XC5 needs to step away from the XC4 model when upgrades are released very often and mixed. It has been said many times - DO NOT release mixed upgrades. Or at least allow users to install bug fixes only. Bug fixes usually will not break store or non-XC modules. New feature may do this.
Forcing user to install new features which may or may not work just to get one simple bug fixed is not a good practice.

Also - have 2 upgrades per year max. No one cares about the version as long as it works. Like it was mentioned earlier in the thread - "I would trade stability for features any day of the week". Having stable cart system that can actually produce good ROI is way more important than having a non-working system full of features - they cannot be used anyway....

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

If the software needs to move to a different type of code that can be converted with a script then Im sure that is best for the software if that decision has been taken, especially if Flexy is not updated. The question is how seamless will the converter be. Im sure it sounds easier than it will be.

Just want to add, I think right now X-cart support and with the bug tracker is the best I have ever seen it, and that is using since 2004.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

Hope it is more stable, and we can update x-cart v4 to v5.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

It's amazing/humorous that after all of these years we are still discussing upgrade woes.

I like the roadmap. It's nice to see where you are heading. Here is a simplified wish list based on this new roadmap:

5.3

• HTML5, CSS3
• v4-style skin directories
• Move to Twig
• PHP 5.4+

4.8

• HTML5, CSS3
• Already has skin directories
• Move to Twig
• PHP 5.4+

5.4

• Seamless upgrade from v4

Or we could have just done this (based on previous feedback):

4.1-4.5

• Major iterative improvements to the upgrade process including isolating the core

5.0

• HTML5, CSS3
• Smarty 3 or Twig
• Seamless upgrade from v4

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

Mike, I remember our dialog in June. Steve, we have taken into consideration your ideas. Here are some facts and planned improvements, guys:

1) You are right. We used to release new versions too often. We had to do it because we got feedback and requests from our existing merchants who had to be provided with solutions for real cases. We just could not tell them “Please wait for six months, guys”. There have always been two sides: developers and merchants. We have to help merchants in the first place.


2) After version 5.2.6 X-Cart became much more powerful and stable, so we were able to change the release procedure. There was only one major update since IRCE 2015 - 5.2.7. The July 5.2.6 release includes bug fixes and improvements of back-end payments and image settings only, no more major changes. The versions 5.2.8-5.2.10 include only bug fixes.


3) We are aiming to offer a schedule of one release per 6-12 months in the future, but at the moment we have to schedule one major update in 3-4 months.


4) In 5.3 we will implement the 4th digit to the core version to distribute bug fixes only. So, an increment from 5.3.0.x to 5.3.1.0 in the version number will mean that the release is a feature update, and an increment from 5.3.1.0 to 5.3.1.1 will mean that it is a bugfix update.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

The problem now is that you are essentially making devs upgrade. This is how: Check out this module: http://www.x-cart.com/extensions/addons/product-stickers.html. The requirements for this module is X-Cart 5.2. What if a user has a stable store in version 5.1? He can't use any new modules, because you create your modules for the new version.

Do you guys realize that our shopping carts provide finances for our families and kids. You are messing with families and our livelihoods. These carts are not experiements for fun new features. STABILITY IS KEY!

And as I have said over and over.....If you have any custom modules developed by X-Cart and you are forced to move to XC 5.3, all of your custom modules have to be adapted and X-Cart will not give that to you for free. But if I stay at version 5.2.10, then all of the new modules on the marketplace are going to be compatible with only the new version.

At this moment, I regret going to XC5. It's been a month and my support queue is full of bugs and the adaptation of my custom mods to the new version.

I just can't....can't keep going through this! PLEASE X-CART...I'm already getting my cart ready to go back down to X-Cart 4.7. It'll take a while, but for me stability pays the bills.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

Honestly speaking, 5.2.10 is the most stable version of XC5 to date. How can you expect them to keep making mods for older versions that are not stable?

Further, if you have 5.2.10 and they release 5.2.11, you *should* upgrade because it's going to have a lot of bug fixes. The modules designed for 5.2.10 will all work on 5.2.11.

You could also make a development store of 5.3 and work on it while keeping your 5.2 store live.

I used to use 4.6.6 platform, it was good. But no way would I go back to that at this stage, just when XC5 is finally starting to work well. Eventually, you are going to have to move up if you want to keep up with your competitors. Plus they will eventually phase that out. I can at least say that with the current XC 5.2.10, you should be able to make good sales with it - I am. Yes, it took me a few months of hell to get here but there's no going back for me at this point.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

Thanks Max, your comments above sound promising.

@ hartwellj - I don't really agree with your last comments. New modules release was always with newer cart versions in C4 and XC5. Imagine you are using XC 4.5.2. New module is released for XC4 based on XC 4.7.4. Do you really expect the developer of this module (whoever that is) to release it for all XC versions even for 4.1.x? (Oh yes I have clients still using 4.1.8 and not thinking about an upgrade at all)

You can't expect every new module to be compatible with all XC versions. XC 5.1.x is old and it is understandable new modules will not be coded for it. But you can always ask the developer of the module for custom adaptation of the module to your cart.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

Ok kev....that's fair and you are right. But remember, I have custom mods, so my situation is a little different.

But what happens when you are forced to upgrade to 5.3, because the Marketplace only supports version 5.3. But you are so happy with 5.2, because of the stability. Then comes 5.4 with a whole new Core change.

My point is...when will it end. Each Core update, requires more money with custom mods.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

I disagree.....For most of the X-Cart Modules, the compatibility is a range: 4.2-4.7. I don't see on the Marketplace that the modules for XC5 have a range: 5.1 or higher. When a module is made for XC5.2, why discontinue completely the module for XC5.1. Keep the range and allow customers who want to stay STABLE to use the older mod.

Listen to your statement: "XC 5.1 is old"....hahaha....you've been duked as well. How in the world could XC 5.1 be old already. Do you see how fast these upgrades are moving, to where version 5.1 is already discontinued and extinct.....You've just reinforced my point.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

I don't think you are forced to upgrade. You can stay with the version you like and works for you for as long as you want.

BTW I think the latest posts here moved to a different direction and not the one intended for this thread. Maybe moderator can move them to new one?

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

I can give you many examples of modules which are not in the range 4.2-4.7. This range is true with modules that started with 4.2 or 4.3. With newer modules which first release was for 4.7 you will have them compatible with 4.7 and 4.6 but not below.

And yes 5.1.x is old as now we have way newer version, improved, faster, less buggy. See release dates - http://kb.x-cart.com/display/XDD/Changelog
I am not saying 5.1.x does not work or you should not stay with it. All I am saying is you cannot expect module released today to also support older versions of XC. This will be up to the developer to decide if there is enough interest to have it running under older version.
I know all XC devs will consider this if they see enough interest to satisfy the expense of coding for older versions.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

Thanks for keeping me sane :)

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

On the good side here are the things I do like:
1. Support is top notch. They do respond and they get things done
2. XC5 is current and feels new
3. I do like the new features and the mod partners. It comes at a price of more bugs, but at least you see it moving forward.
4. When things do work....they work well and I can tell already that there is much less tech support from my customers, because the cart is more user friendly....
5. Feature-wise it crushes XC4

To stay with the Roadmap theme of this post....I just wish there was a way to mitigate the updates and bugs during these frequent updates.

Let's hope that this new script conversion process works.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

Agreed, core changes should not have this impact. Since 5.0, properly built modules should be version-agnostic, inherently future-proof, and able to run regardless of core changes. The store owner shouldn't care what version of 5 they are using, where each update is a no-brainer, if not automatic, since it further solidifies the core, and all installed modules benefit. If this is not possible or is very difficult then something is fundamentally wrong with v5.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

Simple and straightforward certainly works for us!

Our live store runs perfectly on X-Cart 5.2.6 and we will NOT change this until X-Cart 5.2.11 i.e. the final release of the X-Cart 5.2.* series.

Why? For the reasons that cflsystems has highlighted above... we don't need too! Do you? Really?

The switch from our old 4.1.9 store was NOT easy... but we think that X-Cart 5 series is ultimately better for future business (in our case anyway).

There were many, annoying bugs with some of the earlier X-Cart 5.1.* and 5.2.* series versions. Too many really to be fair but... with patience they were all resolved or work arounds were structured and implemented. We had items written as Custom Modifications at an early stage, which now appear in the latest version (5.2.10) by default. In theory, when we run the 5.2.11 final upgrade we *should* be able to simply switch off those modules (and delete them) as that functionality should now be within the core process itself. This will make things easier and more streamlined.... Famous last words :D/

The plan we will work on is to replicate the live store, upgrade that dev store to X-Cart 5.2.11 and then test EVERYTHING ourselves first of all. This way, no live trading is affected and all changes can be carried out in a structured, noted and methodical way. Once this is signed off, then we'll change the live store as per the dev store. Maybe we are lucky, as our store is quite simple, but sometimes less is more and there are lots of things that visitors may not actually want or need that come with X-Cart.

Have you asked your own customers? We have (they all HATE banners for instance...) and we found that if you remove these things, or simply switch them off (via admin or code), then suddenly the whole process becomes a lot easier too.

X-Cart 5.3.* sounds quite exciting and we are sure, that we will switch over to it in due course... but in terms of the return of investment being a primary objective, again, if something works perfectly and it isn't broke... do you really, really need to fix it there and then? What about patience 8O ?

We are perfectly happy with our X-Cart relationship, so long may it continue... slowly :mrgreen:

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

For my store, there were a LARGE number of bugs that were fixed in the upgrade between 5.2.6 and 5.2.10. I could not operated using 5.2.6 like I am with 5.2.10, I definitely would recommend going to 5.2.10 with the caveat that you make a copy of your store to another directory and do it there first, and that you make a backup of the database and especially the files. I did have a major crash from 5.2.6 to 5.2.7.

Tons of orders now in our 5.2.10 store, a few modules are screwed still but overall working quite well.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

About 70 modules installed here. Of those, probably 4 or 5 are vendor modules, 3 are custom modules made for us by X-Cart. Out of all of those…

1) One vendor module not working properly ( Video and Content Testimonial - conflicts with Popup Anywhere module).

2) One X-Cart module not working properly ( Subscriptions)

That's it! It did take a few months to get to this point I admit. Some of these are "hot fixes" that will be addressed in 5.2.11 for everyone. The last few upgrades did not break anything.

Weak points:

a) No Product Configurator module

b) There is not a good, working testimonial module (seems like a no brainer but for whatever reason, no simple, bug-free, working testimonial module for XC5 is available).

c) No "previous/next" button to scroll through orders as you look at them. You look at one order, then must navigate back to the orders list and click each order individually. I've been getting 20-30 orders a day, it adds up to a lot of clicking.

Extremely weak: The inability to edit multiple products. Not so bad once you got everything in place but if you have 100's or 1000's of products to edit, you can't assign attributes, etc,etc, to them in bulk, each product must be done one by one.

At the moment I'm pretty happy with it. If you asked me 2 months ago, I hated it.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

This is what literally terrifies me about X-cart 5

We have a roadmap presented with the following statement,


Yet in response to a forum question about collecting email addresses from customers for newsletters,


5.3 is forecast for mid 2016.

So by the middle of next year it is forecast that XC5 users will have the ability to collect newsletter subscribers info as a core part of the package.

This is for a piece of software that is an eCommerce solution where email is the primary form of contact with a customer.

It's terrifying.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

The bottom line is that IMHO, X-Cart 5 is about a year away from being really mature. I have mixed emotions on wishing I had waited, but it's over now and I"m in.

Everyone should thank Kev and I for being the biggest guinea pigs and solving all of the bug issues :)

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

There is a lot of truth in that statement, a lot!

If I could give ONE piece of advice to anyone considering *migrating* from XC4 to XC5 it would be this - outside of products and categories, DON'T or you will live to regret it! Do not migrate reviews, and especially do not migrate loyalty points, user accounts, past order history, etc. It's 4 months now and we STILL have issues related to the migration. I actually don't even think it's safe to migrate products - start the thing from scratch and you will be WAY ahead in the long run. I would say over half of the issues we have had are in one way or another a result of the migration.

For example: The other day I had 671 product reviews "vanish" during one fix or another (I can't keep track) and there has been no way to get these re-imported from a backup without integrity errors even though the table structures are identical. Some of the reviews in the table are from customers or products we no longer carry, this is causing all kinds of problems and when you have 671 reviews it's not easy to figure out which one's are causing the problem. X-Cart put one of their top people on the job and while they made a sincere effort, to make a long story short I am now manually re-adding these product reviews.

Likewise, if you have customers with multiple accounts or use the same email address more than once (and quite a few do that), this will cause big headaches.

Save yourself from multitudes of support tickets and frustrations by starting from scratch. After you get your development version of the cart ready, Send out a bulk email to all old users and ask them to re-sign up again. Manually re-add any bonus points they may have accumulated (if you use that module). Don't make the mistake I made by trying to migrate!

Currently using 5.2.10 and orders are flowing in. I'm constantly putting out fires (currently dealing with items not being pulled from inventory) but it does work well overall as far as pulling in sales.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

You take my phrase out of the context.

In X-Cart 5 there is the awesome integration with MailChimp. It looks and works perfectly for most of the merchants. It is much better than the newsletter function that was built into XC4. They not just send your e-mails, but also give suggestions on improving your e-mails and handle situations when their server is added to a black list due to customers complaining on your e-mails (clicking the SPAM button).

And for those who use other company to distribute their e-mail newsletters there will be (later) a function to collect and export e-mails. Or you can use the Mailchimp integration module (it is free) as an example to create a custom integration with any e-mail services provider that you want.

Anyway, I believe that e-mail newsletters should be sent through a company that is an expert in this. I don't recommend to do this through your e-mail server due to possible issues with your server getting black listed (so none of your order e-mails and other notifications will ever get into customer inboxes).

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

I can confirm that the MailChimp works very well and MailChimp is become the new E-mail standard. Yes it costs, but it will pay for itself. This mod works very well and is invaluable.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

This week is a perfect example of the very crude way of upgrading: My cart is finally very stable with version 5.2.10. The only issue is that the Anti-Fraud module has a very significant bug.

Rather than fixing the bug to make it work with 5.2.10, I am forced to upgrade to 5.2.13, which re-quires a re-adaptation of my custom modules which costs me $172.00.

So I'm forced to pay $172 for a bug that is X-Cart's fault! And yes, all of the custom modules were done by X-Cart.

This is completely not fair and something needs to be done! I would understand if I had to pay to adapt my custom modules for future updates that are just features, but not for bug fixes.

I know I sound crazy, but I am seriously thinking of downgrading my cart to version 4 where it was stable and mature....

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

While this is not a guarantee, I should say that it's unlikely that the modules made for 5.2.10 will break with 5.2.13. All of my custom modules worked quite well after that upgrade. Next, having upgraded, I can say this latest version works quite a bit better than 5.2.10. I still have a few minor bugs going on but this thing is working quite well now. You may want to copy your store into another directory and upgrade it there and see how it works.

By the way, I'm also using Antifraud, was using it in 5.2.10 and also now with 5.2.13, I didn't run into any bugs with that.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

Hi,


I am in the same position as hartwelj, only I have more customisations. I noticed a bug, was told to upgrade, did so and then found a lot was broken when I moved from v 5.2.10 to v5.2.13. However my cost will be in total around $1200 to fix. Count yourself lucky it was only $172 for you hartwellj. It affected my site template, the VAT tax system, and several other customisations. I was just about to go live and then this all blew up again with the move the v5.2.13. BTW all customisations were by X-Cart.

With the system as it is, the more customisations you have, then the more likely that you will be affected with any updates or changes to X-Cart core. In my view you will have to factor in a yearly cost or perhaps 10%-20% of the original cost of any customisation you get done by X-Cart, so that they can be fixed when they modify the system. Of course if you stick closer to the default x-cart system, then the less you will have to pay out.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

This doesn't make much sense. XC5 was supposed to be one-click painless upgrade. The main idea on giving up onXC4 and moving to XC5 was to have flawless upgrades. So when core is upgraded all modules stay and continue to work or they need very little adjustment.

From I am reading this is not the case. If you are not isolated cases and this is common to upgraded stores I just don't see how XC5 can be better than XC4....

BTW I had only one of my modules not working properly between 5.2.10 and 5.2.11+. So maybe the problem is not in the XC5 upgrades but in the custom coded modules you have from QT... just saying, it is one of the possibilities.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

Upgrading any module on this thing is a frightening experience, every time. The last few times, all went smoothly. Today, however, I upgraded the loyalty point module and got the dreaded lockout on step 13. I managed to get back into admin by deleting the xcart_dir>/var/.rebuildStarted file but the store was stuck closed, so I rebuilt the cache and got stuck again on step 13. Ditto on removing file. Current status: store is open, admin is open, module shows latest build, but something tells me if I try to rebuild that cache again it's going to die on step 13. I don't know if the module is actually working, and I don't know what else may have been affected.

The good news is that I pulled in 30 orders today and when this thing works, it works very well at this stage. But you need nerves of steel to get it to that point.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

Exactly :D/ We do prefer XC5 but.... XC5 upgrades are not and never have been simple 8O

The more complex your store (number of modules / number of purchased custom modifications / self-engineered modifications etc) then the higher the chance of the upgrade process bringing with it some extra work in order to restore normal operations.

With any purchased custom modifications, you could perhaps offset some of this aggravation, by adding '100% retained functionality for an agreed set number of core release upgrades' into each of the initial project specifications, but this would add to the initial custom modification cost and this can't be utilised with normal modules and/or your own self-engineered modifications. We did do this ourselves, on one custom modification way back now during the 5.2.3 > 5.2.6 upgrades and it worked quite well, but it's effectively adding insurance and paying an appropriate premium, nothing more than that to be fair.

What's ultra-clear to us, is the massive importance of mimicking ALL upgrades (one at a time if necessary) within your DEV store, BEFORE even thinking of adding them to your LIVE store! (as per our final post here: https://forum.x-cart.com/showpost.php?p=394500&postcount=22) Ensuring your DEV store is constantly a perfect mimic of your LIVE store does take some time and effort too; accuracy / consistency / methods applied etc

Also.... Do you actually need to upgrade at THAT moment? (as per our post earlier in this thread and which for us, from 5.2.10 > 5.2.13 anyway proved to be true, as this was NOT a nice and 'smooth' transition https://forum.x-cart.com/showpost.php?p=392449&postcount=24).

If you have sufficient time, patience, accumulated knowledge and correct online access, then the XC5 upgrades can be applied okay. With our own setup, 5.2.13 is very stable, fully operational and satisfactory. We see no need, to actually apply any further future upgrades now (other than any security hot-fixes which are made available from the XC Team). It isn't broke, so there is nothing to fix.

We will NOT be moving to 5.3.* until it's been around for at least a year. Lessons learned :wink:

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

Do you see any error messages in the logs that may relate to the issue? The recent Loyalty Program upgrade looks through all orders and adjusts internal flags depending on order statuses. How many orders do you have? It may be that due to the number of orders it takes a while to process all of them.

UPDATE: Nevermind. I see your message in the thread dedicated to the module. Thanks!

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

Yes, this last upgrade went smoothly, thank you.

Re: X-Cart 5.3 roadmap
 

I'm so glad someone else spoke up. I complain on here and it makes it seem as if I'm the only one. The bottom line is that IMHO it is impossible to have an effective website that supports your family and does well and not have customizations. The X-Cart modules are great, but every customer has certain needs.

If you have custom modules, then X-Cart 5 is a nightmare to upgrade and just like kev said, you literally are sitting in front of the computer crossing your fingers and praying that your site works. I do have a dev account that helps the transition, but it's very hard to test everything.

And the idea that you DON'T have to upgrade is completely false. The new updates fixe bugs in the previous version which requires you to upgrade, even if you want to stay on the current version. In my case the Anti-Fraud service is very important as much of my products are digital downloadable and I require it to reduce fraud. So it's either live without an essential part of your cart or upgrade.

Man phil_ how many customizations do you have?

X-Cart if you are listening to anything we are saying: PLEASE STOP PENALIZING YOUR LOYAL CUSTOMERS BY MAKING US UPGRADE THEN CHARGING US A FORTUNE FOR RE-ADAPTATION FOR MODULES.

The other issue is that in X-Cart 4, there were quite a few developers who could do the work cheaper. Even a good PHP guy can find his way around XC4, but with XC5 none of the reliable developers are touching it. There are maybe 3-4 guys that really know XC5.

I know I sound crazy, but I am literally considering DOWNGRADING and waiting another 3-4 years until XC5 is really mature.

So sad that there are not a lot of viable choices for eMerchants!

[quote=phil_]Hi,



I am in the same position as hartwelj, only I have more customisations. I noticed a bug, was told to upgrade, did so and then found a lot was broken when I moved from v 5.2.10 to v5.2.13. However my cost will be in total around $1200 to fix. Count yourself lucky it was only $172 for you hartwellj. It affected my site template, the VAT tax system, and several other customisations. I was just about to go live and then this all blew up again with the move the v5.2.13. BTW all customisations were by X-Cart.